Where's the Anger!! Alternativer

[jjkoggan]

Here are a set of guiding principles for the silent majority of muslim-americans as established by the american islamic congress. Because of extremism they are often afraid to speak out- but they represent the majority view of muslim americans as established by the PEW research group (a polling group):

STATEMENT OF PRINCIPLES

Muslims have been profoundly influenced by their encounter with America. American Muslims are a minority group, largely comprising African-Americans, immigrants, and children of immigrants, who have prospered in America's climate of religious tolerance and civil rights. The lessons of our unprecedented experience of acceptance and success must be carefully considered by our community.


American Muslims must champion pluralism and condemn all forms of intolerance. American Muslims have a vested interest in the strength of religious freedom and democracy. Because Muslims are relative newcomers to America, we must work to guarantee our equal rights and prevent hate crimes. At the same time, we must condemn hate speech and calls for violence by Muslims. Hateful statements and actions by fellow Muslims threaten the reputation of our entire community. We must censure intolerance, whatever its source.

American Muslims must be leading ambassadors to the Muslim world. America has been a haven for Islam. American Muslims must educate the Muslim world about the remarkable freedoms and coexistence we enjoy here. Calls for "Death to America" and the murder of Americans are an attack on millions of Muslims who are proud to call themselves American. Virulent anti-American rhetoric and action by radicalized Muslims threaten our country, our freedom, and our democracy.

American Muslims must recognize and celebrate our own diversity. Our community comprises individuals of various religious strains, ethnic and racial backgrounds, and political outlooks. We embody the spirit of American diversity and represent a rainbow of humanity. By celebrating diversity and building bridges within our own community, we help strengthen American society.

All Muslims should enjoy the social and economic prosperity experienced by American Muslims. We owe our strength and success in part to classic American principles of individual rights and social justice. And, as Americans, we are citizens of a nation that has prospered greatly in the global economy. But in much of the Muslim world, wide income disparities, high unemployment, economic underdevelopment, and limited individual rights create a fertile ground for despair and extremism. We should strive to improve economic conditions and individual freedom in the Muslim world.

American Muslims must champion the rights of minorities in the Muslim world. We know firsthand the importance of protecting the full rights of minority communities. One of our gifts to the larger Muslim world must be a new emphasis on considering and protecting the rights of minorities. This includes a painful reckoning with past and present episodes of intolerance in the Muslim world - and a commitment to progress in the future.

[jjkoggan]

Here are som statistics about Muslim americans that you say cannot live in harmony with western democracy. They fly their flag proudly:

American Muslim voter sample characteristics:
• Young: About 47% are in the 35-54 age group; another 20% are in the 25-34 age
group.
• Highly educated: 62% have obtained a bachelor degree or higher. This is double the
comparable national figure for registered voters.
• Professional: About 50% are professionals.
• Middle class: 43% have a household income of $50,000 or higher.
• Family oriented: 78% are married. Of those, 83% have one or more children.
• Religiously diverse: Only 31% attend a mosque on a weekly basis; 16% attend once
or twice a month; 27% said they seldom or never attend. The largest segment of the
respondents said they consider themselves “just Muslims,” avoiding distinctions like
Sunni or Shia. Another 36% said they are Sunni and 12% said they are Shia. Less
than half of 1% said they are Salafi, while 2% said they are Sufi.
• Integrated in American society: 89% said they vote regularly; 86% said they
celebrate the Fourth of July; 64% said they fly the U.S. flag; 42% said they volunteer
for institutions serving the public (compared to 29% nationwide in 2005).
• Democratic or independent: There is no clear majority in party membership: 42%
said they consider themselves members of the Democratic Party; 17% said they are
Republican; 28% said they do not belong to any party.
Views on issues:
• 84% said Muslims should strongly emphasize shared values with Christians and
Jews.
• 82% said terrorist attacks harm American Muslims.
• 77% said Muslims worship the same God as Christians and Jews do.
• 69% believe a just resolution to the Palestinian cause would improve America's
standing in the Muslim world.
• 66% support working toward normalization of relations with Iran.
• 55% are afraid that the War on Terror has become a war on Islam

[ola]

Det virker ganske håpløst når du presenterer islam og muslimer som om de er et annet slags amerikanske kristne. Dine "silent majority" venner presenterer seg ikke som muslimer men som apostater og heretics. De vet at det er dødsstraff for å forlate islam og avvise sharia og koranens bud. Derfor kan du være sikker på at når imamene deres forlanger at de skal føre krig mot de vantro, da vil de aller fleste av dem også gjøre det i lydighet mot allahs påbud, og slutte med å være "silent".

For å forstå hvordan islam fungerer i forhold til USA og Vesten kan du lese denne korte artikkelen:
http://www.freeman.org/m_online/feb04/sharon.htm

Og ellers kan du følge med på hva denne moderate muslimen sier. Han tilhører "the silent majority" 99% av tiden, men i likhet med alle andre moderate muslimer kommer han av og til frem og sier noe som er islamske sannheter og som alle muslimer uten unntak tror på:
http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/world/AP-E...artner=homepage

[jjkoggan]

I see that you refuse to face the facts that moderate muslims exist by proposing that millions of muslims in america will suddenly turn into extremists, something they have not done for over 60 years as they have integrated themselves firmly into american society.

Certain people in any group can be prone to become religious zealots,, but these zealots do not necessarily represent the majority. The muslim experiment in north america has stood the test of time and shown that there is a brand of moderate islam that is possible in multicultural, secular society.

. I understand that you are unable to see that there are multiple interpretations of any philosophy and I suspect this is your personal religious view. If you want to fantasize about a complete philosophical, religious reversal of a majority of american muslims-go ahead but just remember- it is just that- A FANTASY.


This ends my debate with you over this since you refuse to see the reality of 60 years worth of data and of which you cannot present any data on the majority american-muslim view that refutes my assertions. If you can present any credible statistics supporting your view on the muslim-american liberal view of islam, I welcome it, otherwise I am done with this debate.

[ola]

Opprinnelig skrevet av jjkoggan
... The muslim experiment in north america has stood the test of time and shown that there is a brand of moderate islam that is possible in multicultural, secular society.

... If you want to fantasize about a complete philosophical, religious reversal of a majority of american muslims-go ahead but just remember- it is just that- A FANTASY.

This ends my debate with you over this since you refuse to see the reality of 60 years worth of data and of which you cannot present any data on the majority american-muslim view that refutes my assertions. If you can present any credible statistics supporting your view on the muslim-american liberal view of islam, I welcome it, otherwise I am done with this debate.

Your belief in "a brand of moderate islam that is possible in multicultural, secular society" is not only a fantasy and a dangerous delusion, - it is superstition of a lunatic kind. Islam is not a "philosophy" which can be "interpreted".

[jjkoggan]

Again-no proof, just B.S.

[Lars]

Just a little comment; through US' "green card"- system, US will have a selected and more educated; and therefore easier integrationable population of immigrants from other countries; including muslim countries. Europe has conducted a much more liberal immigration politic, and it follows from this that problems with fundamentalism will be much higher in Europe.

[jjkoggan]

Enig- men det var ikke tema- Ola påstår at moderate muslim ikke eksisterer i det hele tatt selv om de har bodd her i relativt fred i mer enn 60 år. Mange av dem er ikke religiøs og oppfører seg som vannlig amerikaner eller nordmenn selv om de kaller seg muslim, akkuratt som de fleste kristne som ikke går på kirken men støtter statskirken og kaller seg kristne.

Det finnes mindre antall fattige muslim fordi velferds sustemet ikke støtter dem. Dette tvinger dem til å bli kjent men det amerikanske systemet og tjene penger og på den måten integrerer seg. DEt er også sannt at økonomiske frimarked systemet ligner den de kommer fra. De er ofte velidig flinke "small businessman" og eier bensin stasjon eller "convenience store". Det er også mange intellektuelle, utdannet muslime som måtte flytte flere land etter den "islamic revolution". En annen ting er at mange av dem bor i småbyer og ikke bare havner seg blant hverandre i storbyene som i europa.

Den siste sak som er kanskje vanskelig å forklare-det amerikanske kultur-et innvandrer kultur som prøver å akseptere alle så lenge de jobber hardt og greier seg uten å ta penger fra andre og religion spiller ingen rolle-grunnloven erklare seg nøytrale. Virkeligheten er ofte noe annet men det er målet og kulturen. Det er ikke kulturen i frankrike for eksempel- ingen blir helt fransk enn franskmenn. Det sier noe også i norsk kultur at nordmenn ikke sier "iranske nordmenn" men heller "iranerne" selv om de har fullt borgerskap.

[jjkoggan]

Here is a small town in Minnesota with 20% of norwegian heritage, now a town with 37 different nationalities, with some new muslims.

WILLMAR, Minn. - At this year's Christmas pageant, Latino Lutherans invite local Catholics to join in — just another sign of how Willmar's varied cultures strive to include one another.

"Why is it working?" asks resident Idalia Leuze. "Because we have actually come together and have decided that this has to work."

Like most American towns, this one has its general store and coffee shop, but nestled in between, the new face of Willmar: a Somali grocery, a Latino clothing store, a Mexican bakery.



Mayor Les Heitke says there are 37 different ethnicities in his city of just 18,000 — 20 percent of the population.

"On Main Street you'll see all the northern Europeans, but you're also going to see East Africans, Somalis, Sudanese, people from Bosnia, people from the Pacific Rim, and they're in and amongst our community," he says.

Many make a middle class wage at one of the two Jennie-O turkey plants in town, and pump as much as $80 million back into the local economy.

"They're finding out it's a good place to be," says Gregg Aamot, an Associated Press reporter and author of 'The New Minnesotans: Stories of Immigrants and Refugees.'

Aamot's own family came from Scandinavia a century ago. He says Willmar is welcoming, but wary of those here illegally.

"There are some folks who understand that illegal immigrants are here because they're looking for a better life, and they accept that," he says. "But there is a fair chunk of the population, as well, that wants to see immigration fair and rational, and they want everyone to be on a level playing field."

Local schools have had to adapt — most employ interpreters to help the nearly one-third of students who come from immigrant families.

"The biggest problem is the communication, the language barrier, not being able to communicate your needs or your wants, anything, right away to people," says Leuze, who works as the executive director of the West Central Integration Collaborative Consortium of School Districts. "But we've done a wonderful job at that."

"I started in second grade and I had never seen a white person before, so it was a little different," says Willmar High School senior Abdi Awle.

Runners of Somali heritage catapulted the cross country team to win the state championship two years in a row.

"These are Willmar kids, that's what they are, they're Willmar kids," says coach Jerry Popp.

"It's an All-American city, it just looks different than the All-American city of 1950," says Aamot. "It's a good thing."

A helping hand in the heart of middle America to newcomers from the four corners of the world.

[jjkoggan]

Back to the debate, here are todays headlines:

U.S. gives Sudan until year-end to accept UN force


Time to get critical you guys- someone is putting pressure on Sudan through the UN, forcing an international UN force.

Bad idea or good idea, at least someone is taking initiative. Why couldnt the EU have done the same?